Gail Davis
EPISODE 16
It’s so fascinating how one experience can be a turning point that shapes one's career, life, decisions! Hear how the movie Alive became a catalyst for Gail Davis, corporate professional in the meetings and events space, to start her own company GDA Speakers.
Guest: Gail Davis
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Gail Davis is the founder of Gail Davis and Associates, a leading Speaker Bureau Agency. She is the past President of the International Association of Speakers Bureaus and has served as IASB's governor, where she developed new education programs for members worldwide and through increased investment in the industry. Gail has won numerous awards, including Dallas's top 25 Women in Business. She is an accomplished corporate marketing and events professional turned entrepreneur who has dedicated decades to her craft before becoming an entrepreneur and creating Gail Davis and Associates.
Key Takeaways:
Considerations for becoming a Public Speaker:
Understanding the realities of being a speaker
Are you willing to invest the time to pay your dues to build a name for yourself
Invest in doing it well to be an amazing speaker - Hire a speaking coach
Hiring and Managing People:
Frustration is nothing more than unmet expectations
Don’t be afraid to pay for talent
Be very clear about expectations
Building a team is an opportunity to grow as a leader... to understand the nuances of how people learn and how you can communicate
Personal Growth:
Moments of self-doubt can be overcome by time and personal growth - which leads to confidence.
Recognize opportunities for growth and give yourself grace to learn and evolve.
Key to Gail’s success: Gail is super passionate about being a connector and helping people learn. Resiliency is the second biggest key to her success.
REALTALK: It can be EXHAUSTING surrounding yourself with people just like YOU!!! Surround yourself with people with different strengths and acknowledge them...often!
Resources:
The Wealthy Speaker 2.0: The Proven Formula for Building Your Successful Speaking Business
by Jane E. Atkinson (Author)
The Three Ring Circus Bootcamp: https://3ringcircus.com/bootcamp/
Find out more:
Guest:
Gail Davis
Company:
GDA Speakers
Social:
@GDAspeakers - Facebook
@gdaspeakers - Instagram
@GDASpeakers - Twitter
GDA Speakers - Youtube
GDA Speakers - LinkedIn
Listen and Subscribe on: Spotify | iTunes | Stitcher | Google Play
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SEE TRANSCRIPTION BELOW
Maureen Borzacchiello: (00:00)
Gail Davis is an accomplished corporate marketing and events professional turned entrepreneur. She dedicated decades to her craft before becoming an entrepreneur and creating Gail Davis and Associates, a leading speakers Bureau and agency. Gail set out to do things a little bit differently than the norm. And her company is not only a service provider but a true trusted partner with their clients. Almost two decades later, GDA has built a database of world-renowned thought leaders and expert in her field. Gail is a past president of the international association of speakers bureaus. Prior to that, she served as IASB's governor, where she developed new education programs for members worldwide and through increased investment in the industry. Overall, Gail has won numerous awards, including Dallas's top 25 women in business. Gail. We are so excited to have you here today. Welcome.
Gail Davis: (01:00)
Thank you, Maureen. I've been looking forward to this all morning.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (01:04)
All right. Well, we're going to dive in because there are women out there that are going to want to hear what you have to say.
Gail Davis: (01:12)
I hope that's true.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (01:14)
Absolutely true. So Gail, why don't you give us a little bit of background? It was crazy when I've known you for a while, but as I was reading your background and how you ended up becoming an entrepreneur, I feel like my lead in should be how a dramatic movie led to a real life change in your life. So why don't you tell everybody how we got to this point?
Gail Davis: (01:40)
Okay. Well, Maureen, when I graduated from college, I went to work for EDS electronic data systems, which was the company that Ross Perot founded and based in Dallas. But I actually started working for EDS, Missouri, and then I moved to Oregon and eventually I ended up in Dallas and I had an amazing career working at EDS for 20 years. I did a variety of things and, sound like the most stable person, because I say I had the same job for 20 years, but in reality, I had so many different positions within the same company. And the last 10 years, I managed the corporate incentive events department. Really, that was just one big event held each year. It was called inner circle and it was the sales recognition event for the top performers. And I was responsible for all components of that event. And so that was the site selection, the speakers, the entertainers, the gifts, the theme, just so much fun.
Gail Davis: (02:48)
I loved it one year. I believe it was 1994. We were on the last night of an event and the chairman came up to me at the staff and asked me, who are we going to have as our keynote speaker next year? Part of me was like, really? can we not just celebrate that this one's over, but as you know, that's what he wants to talk about, but that's okay. We talked about it, and I said, well, you know, I haven't really started working on that yet, but why do you bring it up? What are you thinking? And he said, I'm thinking that I'm tired of the same old speakers that I hear everywhere I go. And he said, I would like someone that's new and different, someone everyone would like to hear, but no one's heard. And someone that is global in their appeal.
Gail Davis: (03:38)
I was like, Okay. So, that challenge was planted and completely unrelated. It was a Friday night, you know, you go get the pizza, you go to the video store, remember that, look at all the movies on the wall. Paul and I saw the movie "Alive" and I had wanted to see it, but it was only in the theater for like a week, I think. And so I grabbed it and I went home, plugged it into the old VCR and the person that I was with said, what about that guy for inner circles? And I was like, Ethan Hawke? And he was like, no, not even Hawk, but the real guy. And at first I thought, you know, maybe you should stick to mergers and acquisitions and I'll be the one that plans events. But as I watched the movie, I thought what an outstanding idea.
Gail Davis: (04:29)
It was just the most unbelievable story. And the funny part of the story is it was 1994. So there was no Google. So you had to go to a speakers Bureau because the speaker's Bureau held the Rolodex of all the names and all of that contacts. And so I went through several speakers bureaus and said, you know, I'd like to find this guy to speak. And I was given a lot of advice that it might not necessarily be a good idea because sometimes just because they write a book, doesn't make them a good speaker or just because someone's been portrayed in a movie when you meet the real person, they're not as polished as the actor. And it was a lot of things that I needed to take into consideration, obviously, but I saw Nando interviewed in a documentary and I knew that he had the charisma and the charm and then his English was great.
Gail Davis: (05:19)
So fast forward, I tracked him down on my own, going through the Uruguayan embassy in Washington, DC. He said, no, I stuck with it. He finally said, yes, he came to Hawaii. He gave the speech, it was off the charts and the chairman of the company, jokingly. He put his arm around me and said, you know what, kid, you should retire. And I'm like retire? And he said, yeah, you'll never outdo that one. So I don't know if he planted an idea when he made that comment at the same time, my parents, my dad had always had, you know, a long-term career with the postal service and he and mom started a business on the side. So I had watched my parents build something. So I had that frame of reference. And then a lot of things happen at EDS. My long-term manager and mentor died of leukemia.
Gail Davis: (06:14)
And for me that it forever changed place because she's no longer there. So that had an impact on me. And then the chairman of the company who I was very close to left EDS, and that had an impact on me. And so one day just everything lined up and I thought, you know if I'm ever going to do this now is the time. So I worked at EDS for 20 years and I made that decision and I don't think I could have had better training because it's today I work with very large corporations and I understand corporate structure, I understand levels, and departments. And, I understand that there's a procurement department and you'd have to get your terms approved. I just woke up one day and decided to have a speakers Bureau. I don't know that I would have had the skillset to navigate corporate America. So I guess I like to do things in 20-year segments because I worked at EDS for exactly 20 years and I've had this company for 22, I think.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (07:12)
Wow, that's amazing. Congratulations. And for the gen Zs and millennials who may not be familiar with the movie "Alive" and Nando's story, they were part of the rugby team or tell it horrific, plane crash.
Gail Davis: (07:31)
Yes, it was in 1972 and they were a Uruguayan rugby team going to Chile to play a rugby match. And probably 90% of the people on the plane had never even seen snow. And the pilot made a navigational error. He thought he had crossed the Andes mountains. And so he was descending, but actually it was in the middle of Andes mountains. And Nando tells the story about looking out and thinking, are we supposed to be this close to the mountains? And the next thing he knows, the belly of the plane literally hit a mountain. And the back half of the plane just disintegrated. Nando that was his first miracle in the Andes as he was in the first part of the plane, then the plane with like a bobsled and it missed all these crevasses. And then it just landed at about 15,000 feet. And remember it was 1972 and they were in the mountains for 72 days. Two days is a long time. And so it's the most beautiful story that I think exists about the power of the human spirit, the power of the human spirit. It's so beautiful. And you know,
Maureen Borzacchiello: (08:50)
I get choked up now, such a cry baby.
Gail Davis: (08:56)
And that's not a typical reaction for people that hear the story, because it just puts your whole life in perspective. You had a fender-bender this morning at the gas station, big deal. You're coming home tonight. You got food on the table and you've got your family. I think they don't know what to expect. They think it's an adventure story, but really it's like I said, the power of the human spirit, but it's a love story. It's about family. It's about friends. It's about what really matters in life stuff. I'm still crazy about the story. It's still my all-time favorite.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (09:28)
It's amazing. And I would assume have become pretty close to him. Like, I'm sure this is a dear friend, because not only was it kind of the precipitous for you creating your own company and realizing, wow, that was amazing. I could do that all day long. And then you serendipitously end up representing him, helping him navigate. I think his book, which became a New York Times bestseller. So that's gotta be really just an amazing side benefit of this entire situation.
Gail Davis: (09:59)
Yeah. We're very close friends. I have looked him over 300 times in the last 22 years. I attended his daughter's wedding in Uruguay. His wife is someone that I consider a very close friend now, Nando and I are exchanging grandchildren's photos. So he's a little bit ahead of me. He has four and I only have one granddaughter, but, he was at my son's wedding. Yes, we're very, very close friends. And ironically, this is a great story. He was my number one book speaker when COVID-19 hit. And we shifted to a virtual environment and I had sent him an email and said, Hey, I want to connect with you and talk about doing conferences. He calls them conferences, conferences on zoom. And I got a two word reply, "what's zoom" and a question mark. And I laughed. I thought, Oh no. So the next day I get an email titled zoom plan. And he comes back and says, I've got this. I been in TV for years. I know how to do this. So, you know, we're not going to show two videos. We're going to show one. We're not going to show 25 slides. We're going to show three. We're not going to talk for an hour. We're going to talk for 25 minutes and then we're going to do more Q and A. And it was amazing. And he was our number one booked speaker. So I've learned a lot from him on resiliency, for sure.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (11:25)
That's for sure. Yeah. It's a remarkable story. Feel good? What a great way to start off our discussion. And it's a perfect segue actually, into talking about your expertise and different ways that corporations and companies can leverage speakers. And you know, there's a lot of obvious trade shows, events, conferences, and VIPs. So I guess talk us through some of the less obvious and why companies should consider hiring and paying for speakers. I'd love to level set by starting with that.
Gail Davis: (11:59)
Okay. Well, it's interesting because my answer today is probably very different than it would have been a year ago because of everything that's happened with people being isolated and working from home. So this past year, what I've seen is people bringing in mental health experts, sometimes bringing in motivational speakers to inspire their employees and give them perspective. I would say pre-COVID as speaker was hired to be on a stage. Typically what I would always ask my clients is what is your objective? Do you want to inspire? Do you want to bring in a thought leader, really talk to me about those people in the seats and how do you want them to feel what is the objective? And I will help you find the perfect solution. Well, now in a virtual world, there's all sorts of different. It's the same question, I guess, but there's different opportunities.
Gail Davis: (12:59)
And what I'm seeing is sometimes it now involves the whole family. Like I just had a large client that had several day event for their sales team and their closing speaker was Michael J. Fox. And they had a really active chat. And some of the things that I saw on the chat were, you know, I just brought my wife and she's sitting here with me. We're both so moved. My father has Parkinson's. This means so much to me. I just pulled all my children in and told them to stop online school, but to sit here and listen to this story, it's so amazing. So now the audience has grown a little bit because of people working from home. Sometimes we're even finding clients that are like, do you have any humor? Can we do, something can invite the whole family. So there's been a shift, I would say.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (13:54)
It's really fascinating. And what a great opportunity for sure to do something that's so meaningful, not only to the individual who would have had their butt in the zoom seat anyway, but also to integrate their family and have that level of inspiration. Very, very cool. So when a client hires you a corporation hires, you tell us a little bit about how you support them. What's unique and different that you built into what you do. Talk us through a little bit of that.
Gail Davis: (14:25)
I've been thinking about this lately. And I think it's three areas where we provide value. So number one is sourcing the speaker. Number two is contracting the speaker and all the payments that are involved. And number three is the logistics. And really it's a three-legged stool. And you need all of that. Under sourcing, unlike me back in 1994, when I was looking for the guy that was the hero in the Andes mountains, anybody can find that today. I mean, you can Google those exact words in, that'll probably take you to Nando's website and It'll probably bring you to my website. So anybody can find a speaker, where do we provide value? We provide value in the relationship and in the experience. So if I could, I would only recommend speakers that I've personally seen. But now that I've been doing this for over two decades, that's not always the case. So now I tap into my industry peers and I'm like, okay, I need the good, the bad, the ugly. What does this person like to work with? The ability and the relationships that we have to source speakers is one of the primary things. I think that we bring to the table.
Gail Davis: (15:43)
The second area where we add value is the contracting. And so some contracts are super simple and that's when we use an industry standard contract and the client signs our version and the speaker signs our version. That's super easy. We could close a speaker in a day, but the complexity comes when you have a client who has a legal department and they have certain terms that have to be approved. And fortunately we have the technology to save those terms. And then the complexity can get even more complex when you have a speaker who has a rider or some unique terms. So I think we really add a lot of value and expertise when it comes to actually contracting the speaker and making sure that everybody's paid. And then finally in the area of logistics, of course, logistics had been redefined in the virtual world for an in-person meeting that involves flights, airport transfers, confirming hotel accommodations, confirming the time of the soundcheck and making sure all the AB requirements that are specified in the contractor on site, in the virtual world, it's tech checks and platforms and making sure that as we experienced a few difficulties today, making sure that all the technology is in play
Gail Davis: (17:00)
So those are really where we come in and offer the expertise.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (17:05)
Awesome. Sounds amazing. It makes perfect sense. You know, having spent a good portion over 20 years of my life in the live event space, it is all of that prep and logistics handling behind the scenes, the ducks on the water that bring it all to fruition and to life and understanding the clients and their expectations and their needs and the level of handholding that's required, not just for the speaker, but also for the client is always an important piece that differentiates yourself when your client knows they can trust you like they do with you. It just takes so much pressure off of them to know that they're going to look good by choosing to hire you and your firm. I'm sure there are a lot of women entrepreneurs listening to this and saying, this is amazing information I'm thinking of increasing and elevating my profile. I'd love to start to speak. So within that context, what are your top three or four tips that you could give or resources that they could explore just to start educating themselves on the process
Maureen Borzacchiello: (18:14)
Sure, I get asked this question a lot and I always start recommending a book, which you can get on Amazon. And it's called the Wealthy Speaker. It's written by a woman named Jane Atkinson, just the fundamental basics of how the speaking industry works. And I think that's the really good place to start. I think she's pulled together a lot of really practical information. She has been an agent working at a speakers Bureau and she has worked for a specific speaker helping develop their visibility and relationship with bureaus. And now she has coaching service, the speaker launcher, or speaker launcher.com. So I think reading that book is just a great way to understand the fundamentals. Then, you know, you'd have to really ask yourself, is this what I want to do? And I think you need to talk to someone who has made it and hear how long it takes to make it and hear what the lifestyle's really like, because it might appear to be glamorous like, Oh, wow, look, they're on the stage and everyone's clapping.
Gail Davis: (19:26)
Isn't that fun. But what goes along with that are years of doing things that you might not get paid would be that you think you're worth. And what goes with that is missing your kid's soccer game and being on the road. And after everybody claps, you're in the hotel room all by yourself. So is it something that you're really committed to, if you're really committed to it, then you need to invest in doing it well. And at that point, I would recommend that you hire a speaking coach, you and I met because we both worked with a coach. And I think it's important to have somebody that coaches you, because you only get one chance to make a first impression. And that could be Jane or there is another group that has a bootcamp it's called the three ring circus. And I don't remember it with the two day bootcamp. I think it may be, but I highly recommend that as well, but you've got to really invest doing it well to get out there and really be a top-tier speaker
Maureen Borzacchiello: (20:28)
Makes perfect sense. There are lots of things that entrepreneurs have to hone in on in the presentation department. And I would think that just like anything else, whether it's pursuing a large corporate client or pursuing a speaking career, all of those require some due diligence. So I, those are absolutely great tips. So of course I'm dying to know like, what are the biggest flops or mistakes that you've seen people make over the years that were speakers that really missed the mark? Give us the dirty side or just some fun examples of
Gail Davis: (21:08)
Just this morning. I had a feedback call with a client about a speaker that was a virtual speaker and they were a little familiar with the CEO. So let's say the CEO, his name was Richard. It wasn't, but let's just say it was. And you know how sometimes if you know a Richard really well, you might call them casually Dick, or, you know, there might be a Catherine that you might call Cathy. And this particular speaker used a familiar version of the name, which nobody called the president of that company or the CEO of that name. And he didn't do it once he did it two or three times. And it just was super, super off-putting. So that's a very silly example, but I just had that call this morning. Once I was supposed to be onsite at an event, well, we had a speaker book, and that speaker canceled and we did a replacement and it was their choice.
Gail Davis: (22:06)
Not someone I recommended, that someone they wanted, it makes the story a little bit better and I was supposed to be on site. And then something came up with my kids and I wasn't able to be on site. And so the client, it was a large HR company and they said to the speaker, the only thing we want to make sure you know, is we do not want any four letter words from the podium. This particular speaker goes to the podium and the first word out of his mouth was the F word and I mean fine or fun. I mean the F word. And he said that, and I guess, okay, got that out of the way stop. So, you know, when we talked about what services do we bring to the client, there are people, and he's one of them that we have in our back office. And it says in big letters do not book. I would never recommend that person. Even if the person said, Oh, I think that story is terrible. Let's go, come anyway. I would say, I don't want to be involved, right.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (23:15)
Because guess who has the master service agreement with the client who need for that jerk? And even though, as you said, the only good news is they demanded that he was the replacement. So at least,
Gail Davis: (23:27)
But even if that I couldn't get him to do anything. So I personally ate the expenses cause I just could not, after they paid with me, I could not send them a bill for his plane. I just couldn't do it. I was like, yeah,
Maureen Borzacchiello: (23:48)
That's great. And I'm sure they appreciated that, but wow, what a jerk? Oh my God.
Gail Davis: (23:54)
Yeah, there is rain. I rarely have instances or the client is not happy, but getting the name of the company wrong, that happens sometimes where they mispronounce it or maybe someone who's on the road all the time, like has a sweat. It's so good today to be here with IBM. And they're not at IBM. I mean, that has happened, but it's so rare. This is a wonderful industry. I think about this a lot. And I try to write it down as something that I'm really grateful for. We work with great clients and that our clients are with great organization because an organization that's struggling, doesn't typically spend money on an outside speaker. So usually it's an organization that's committed to improving the growth and development of their members or their employees. So, clients are great. They're just great and speakers that we recommend are great because they've made and they're out there speaking because they know their craft. And so it's really a pretty cool situation to be in, honestly,
Maureen Borzacchiello: (25:07)
Without a doubt. And you do your due diligence. I mean, I know that you don't take just anybody, you really vet based on specificity expertise, what they bring to the table because you're delivering them up to primarily high profile customers to speak at their events. So I guess that also is part of the equation. You're setting yourself up for success by not bringing in potential liabilities or people who wouldn't quite hit the mark.
Gail Davis: (25:38)
Yeah. And I think I've had just a handful of situations where people have said, Oh, I read this book and I really want this off. And I try to say, now, wait a minute, never worked with this person before, you know, it's back to the Nando advice that I got. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. So yeah.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (25:58)
And I'd love to ask you as an entrepreneur, what's one of the toughest challenges that you've had to overcome that like hit the ground moment where you have to crawl back up and like get through a challenge. And like, what was the situation? How did you pull yourself out of it? And what were your key takeaways
Gail Davis: (26:20)
Without a doubt. I mean, I could go back and tell you the transition from big corporate to small business was a big transition, but with out a doubt a year ago on March 6th, when COVID just hit, I cannot believe how overwhelming it was. I could not open my email without it just being one email after another, we need to cancel, we want our money back. Or I could not answer the phone without it being somebody that says we have to cancel. We want our money back. I had been through nine 11 where everything kind of stopped and canceled. It had a lingering effect in that people were afraid to fly, but the problem was not tied to a meeting, right? So we were sitting here going, when will we have meetings again? And we're still asking question, I had had 185 events impacted, and boy, what did I learn?
Gail Davis: (27:21)
I learned when you have a relationship, you can find a great solution. And that means a good relationship with the speaker and a good relationship with the client. The most challenging situation that we had to navigate more with newer clients, where we didn't really have a history or with speakers where we didn't have a longstanding history, it was just so incredibly overwhelming. We had no process in place. It would be exactly as if someone walked in the front door of my office and said, can you show me all your existing contracts please? And I said, Oh yeah, they're all in that door. Which of course they're in the cloud, but let's pretend here for a moment. And that person put them in a big bucket and took a match and lit them on fire and said, have a great day and walked out that, that is what it was like.
Gail Davis: (28:17)
I'm so blessed by the support that I have because very early on, we developed a number of spreadsheets and processes. And I feel like we handled the situation as well as we possibly could. But it's the most challenging thing I've ever dealt with really is. And now it's like, Oh, it's all good. Now we're doing virtual events right left. And now we write contracts that say this event that is going to be held in October is going to be an in-person event in the event that government restrictions are in place. And we're enabled to hold an in-person event, we will convert to virtual. And here's what the fee will be. So everybody's accepted that. And that's what it is. But you know, some people were like, Oh, I can, I can talk about it for hours. But that's the most challenging thing I've ever been through. It really tested my resiliency a lot.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (29:10)
I can imagine the live event industry has just been decimated. And so it's amazing that you were able to kind of create a pivot. I would be curious, is this now like a major part of your norm? Because even when live events go back to live events, there's always going to be virtual now there's always going to be that opportunity. So will you continue to build out the virtual of your business? I had to by default, but now it's an opportunity for additional growth. I would think
Gail Davis: (29:49)
I love my industry so much and we are so collegial. I would never think of someone who does what I do for another company as a competitor. I just wouldn't. These are my friends, these are my pals. We stuck through this together. We help each other out. And one of my colleagues who works for another company, we run an industry call on the term, hybrid kept being used. Well, the future will be hybrid, meaning an in-person component and a virtual competitor. And he actually said, I don't think we're going to be using the word hybrid. It's going to be just assumed like that is what a meeting will be. We're not going to be calling it. Oh, this is a hybrid meeting. No, it's like, of course. And I thought that was really an interesting comment that he made. So yes, I think that because now, I mean, look at the money people spend to travel.
Gail Davis: (30:43)
So, I think people we're just going to really relook at all of this. And I think we know we can accommodate people. So if someone chooses not to go to large meetings, maybe they're immune-compromised. I just think very much so. And for some of our nonprofits, it's been really interesting to me when we built for a nonprofit here in Dallas, I always try to support them by buying a table. So traditionally, if it's a nonprofit event in Dallas and I need to fill the table up, who do I look to? I look to our Dallas based clients right now. We had so many virtual events and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is a really cool event. And I can invite anybody I want. So, you know, we did one event and I remember I had someone in California too. And I had someone in Boston at 10, you know, and, and that's neat. So from a fundraising perspective, when you go virtual, you expand your reach and exposure for your organization. So that's really cool as well.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (31:51)
That's a great point. You know, they skip the swag bag or they have it shipped to them, but you absolutely amplify the ripple effect of being able to get that additional exposure. It's a great point.
Gail Davis: (32:05)
There's no valet.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (32:11)
Or walking a mile through Mandalay Bay or something,
Gail Davis: (32:14)
One of our clients that converted to virtual on the day of her virtual event in Dallas, it was pouring rain. And, but it was worked right. And I sent her in that and I said, man, Rachel has some perks, you know, for the thing to start rolling. And I'm only dressed in the waist up and I don't have to fight the rain. So it's great.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (32:37)
There you go. Slippers and no umbrella. It is really true. I think there are a lot of perks to our zooming. So I want to talk also, as you grow and you're scaling, there's different challenges that entrepreneurs face are as I guess like growing that team, there's so many nuances associated with it. So talk us through, like, what was the biggest people related challenge that you had and how did you overcome that? Those are always fun. Those are better over wine, but it's early in the day,
Gail Davis: (33:14)
Turnover was an issue. And I think it was because of my mindset of, you know, I'm scrappy. I need to hire young people and I can train. So I became known as the best first job you'll ever have. And I hired all these young people, talking to the industry, taught them business, mentor them. And then this younger generation doesn't necessarily work someplace for 20 years like I did. And then they would go find their next job. And then I would have to start over. So you and I both worked with Alicia and one of the things, the great pieces of wisdom she gave me is frustration is nothing but unmet expectations. I've gotten a lot better at hiring talent and recognizing talent and not being afraid to pay for talent. And then I, I have improved so much as a leader because I spent a number of years sitting in my office, frustrated with people that weren't meeting my expectations. And that's what I did is I suppose, frustrated with people, not meeting my expectations instead of being very clear about my expectations. And I love Brené Brown's great quote, where she says clear is kind, clear is kind. I started out 2020 with that play on vision, 20/20 clarity. You know, I'm going to be very clear and ironically, the pandemic really did provide a lot of clarity. It was very, very helpful for me. And that allowed me to be very clear on my expectations.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (35:07)
That's great. I love it. I think it's so true. And yes, I would say I have equally evolved over years of coaching to be curious about what they think the expectation is. And for certain people I recognized I had to learn that, although I thought I was super clear on my expectations or what an assignment was that they were the type of person that benefited from feeding back to me to make sure they actually heard what it was and that they absorbed it. So I remember that was a big thing I implemented was saying, okay. So can you just recap with me? So we're on the same page, what you're doing or for the people who were very visual, I would recap and writing. So it was interesting just because I am a strategic thinker and I am very impulsive and I can think things through, on the fly. Other people need a minute. So it's interesting dealing with people. It's a great blessing for all of us, because as much as it can be frustrating, it's an opportunity just to grow as a leader. Like as the leader, sometimes you have to say, well, I kind of think it's you, but I'm gonna, you know, assume that it's me. And what can I learn from this situation? And how can we go
Gail Davis: (36:30)
Thousand percent, 1000%. And Alicia has just changed my life, but I went to her, it's such the right time. Like it was that exact moment. It was that moment when I was like, I thought it was all these people for so long, in every one of these stories and that's me. So how can I be a better version of myself? And boy, if you're willing to say that it's your help to get there, it's not always for you.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (37:09)
So in the spirit of real talk, the data shows, Gail, that women in general, particularly overachieving women on occasion suffer from imposter syndrome. And so I've become really passionate about talking about this and not continuing to hide it in the closet. So I'd be curious, have you ever suffered from it and if so, what bubbled up for you and how did you navigate your way out of it? So if someone's listening, they can be like, Oh, I can relate to them.
Gail Davis: (37:41)
I think in the beginning, because I had 20 years of working for somebody else, I probably on occasion wonder, do I really have what it takes? You know, am I going to be taken seriously? Maybe when I went to my first IASB meeting all these people, who've had these companies for 10 years and 15 years. And are they going to think I'm just a fly by night thing? You know? So I think probably in the beginning, I haven't thought about it a lot, but probably in the beginning a little bit. Then I think as a leader, I really was hard on myself and I took it so personal when someone would leave me to go to work for another opportunity, like how could they do that? Like, I think I'm good. I can kinda what I'm doing, but maybe I really don't. And I almost cringe when a speaker would come on in and say, Oh, here are the five qualities of a great leader.
Gail Davis: (38:35)
And I would sit there and think, do I exhibit those? Or what other people think about me as a leader? I think I really struggled there. What is the benefit of getting older is developing a confidence and a wisdom in being able to say, I'm not perfect. I don't get it right all the time. I mean, my leadership skills have improved exponentially since I really got serious about coaching, but do I get it right every single day? No, but I wouldn't say that creates an imposter syndrome that just creates, like you said, a realness, like, okay, I'm still a work in progress. This is an opportunity for me. And that's kind of how I approach problems now is it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like we're on the same page. What's the opportunity for me.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (39:27)
Love it. And I do think just the ability to give yourself grace and acknowledge that you're not perfect. It's unrealistic to think that you can be perfect at all times is a huge step and a huge part in navigating for sure. And I appreciate where you're coming from. I think that it is sometimes the, "am I a fraud?" "Can I pull this off?" That bubbles up in particular with imposter syndrome. So it's great that you recognize for me, it's I'll stop myself and say, girl, you've got this. Like, are you kidding? Look at all the things you've accomplished. So yeah, maybe in this one area, we keep needing to work on it and that's okay. And you give yourself some grace to move the needle forward. So what do you think, Gail is one of the keys to your success?
Gail Davis: (40:23)
I am super passionate about this work and I am passionate about connecting people. I've introduced people that have gotten married. I just liked going to you like this and you like this, this will be a good fit. So I really am passionate about it. I mean, I I'm on clubhouse and I overhear stuff that the, Oh, that's fine like that. You know, I just, I like being that connector. So passion to connect people and help people learn and be exposed to new things. I think that's what drives the whole thing. And then my resiliency didn't hurt because you need that in business and not every client loves me. And when one doesn't, how do I come back from that and go, okay. I learned something there and now be better in the future
Maureen Borzacchiello: (41:10)
Without a doubt. I knew you were my soul sister. I just love it. Love it, love it. So as we wind down, what's something Gail that people wouldn't know about you?
Gail Davis: (41:22)
I'm funny. I have a very good sense of humor and I think you're funny. I think sometimes I can shift and be very focused and be kind of all business, you know? So I think people sometimes are really surprised to find out how funny are you? Let my friends know it. Oh, they totally know it. Uh, you know, even my former husband to this day, I mean, he thinks I'm one of the funniest people I've ever met. So it's just, I think if people that meet me in a professional setting might think I'm a little buttoned up and not know that I'm so fun.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (42:00)
Gotcha. You can let your hair down, girl, let it down. I'm going to throw an extra question out there for you. Who is a woman that inspires you and why?
Gail Davis: (42:16)
Ooh, that is a good one. I am going to go with Brené Brown. I'm going to go with Renee because she has this vulnerability, which you know that it's for trademark. But when I read her stuff, you know, I'm always think. Yes, yes that's me. But then I see how she takes that vulnerability and then comes up with a solution to be a better leader. And I think in reading a lot of her books, I really got encouraged that I can be a good leader. I can do this and I don't have to be perfect all the time. So she's really does inspire me also. I'm very inspired by her boundaries now as a person that likes to book speakers and they like the speakers to say, yes, I have to say that sometimes her boundaries bug me because she's know so easily, but she's so clear. She, she knows what her priorities are, you know, with her family. And she knows what her priorities are for researching and writing. And she knows when she's available to speak. And I looked back and I'm like, okay, I didn't get the answer that I wanted, which was the yes. But there's something that I did get, which is a really great example of somebody that's very, very clear on their boundaries and not afraid to say no.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (43:45)
That's perfect. I mean, how big of a struggle is that particularly for women, because we're doing so many things and juggling so many things and how empowering it is to graciously know your boundaries. Love it.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (44:04)
Last question then, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Gail Davis: (44:10)
Oh my goodness.The best piece of advice that I've ever received is that it can be exhausting to surround yourself with people that are just like you. And someone told me that. And I was like, what? Talk to me a little bit more. And this person helped me realize that we are not all the same. And so for example, there's still a was in your earlier helping me troubleshoot, you know, and that's not my thing. I don't like troubleshooting and figuring out how to make the microphones work, but she's really good at that. So having people surround you that have different strengths and acknowledging them, it's not just having different people with different strengths, but it's acknowledging those different strengths really makes for a much pleasant, much more pleasant environment. That, that was really key. I think in the beginning I hired a lot of people that were just like me. And so we all sit around, we all liked each other a lot. There were certain things that weren't getting done and it was exhausting for me because they eventually had to get done. And because everybody was just like me, I had forced myself to do things that really aren't my expertise. And when I started to understand that I need people that are good in this area and I'm full, that are good in that area, this area, then I had more support and more strength.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (45:44)
I'm going to throw an amen up there. I mean, that is a perfect ending to an awesome, awesome interview. I mean, that was the cherry on top of the sundae. Gail Davis, you are awesome. We will put all your links up on our show notes page so that people can check you out. They can follow you. And I will also put the links to the book and the resources that you mentioned. Thank you so, so much for joining us on the real talk podcast today. Gail, you are awesome.
Gail Davis: (46:18)
Oh, thank you, Maureen. I loved it. I absolutely loved it.
Maureen Borzacchiello: (46:22)
We'll talk soon.
